My Beliefs Exposed

I was interviewed on a web site about my religious beliefs. The interview is below. The web site is http://youmereligion.blogspot.ca/

Today we have a new interview so please welcome Doug Doan. Doug is an Agnostic and I know you will enjoy his interview as well. 

Here Is Doug Doan's Introduction:

 I am a 52 year old divorced man with 3 grown kids who is currently a hotel manager, but has been in several careers including sales, customer service, counseling, and religion. I am an avid fan of the internet; yes, including facebook! I have started several blogs, and enjoy that medium, although I have not been as active lately. I struggle with depression/anxiety and ADHD. Thankfully, they are well controlled with several medications, but they sometimes get intertwined with my religious struggles and it's hard to sort out.

http://thedoanreligionzone.blogspot.com/

 

1) What religion do you practice?

I am a serious agnostic. That means I take the issues of life, meaning, and spirituality very seriously, but have not found a religious framework that has enough evidence to be worth believing, and I doubt I ever will; but I'm open to it. 2) Are you a convert/revert or were you raised within this religion? If you converted, what did you need to convert? And what did you practice prior to converting?

I spent most of my life, including all my childhood, in a strong fundamentalist/evangelical Christian culture. I went to Bible College and Seminary. I was a Pastor for several years, as well as a Christian Counselor. I even was Captain of the Counselors at a Billy Graham Crusade!

About two years ago, in the midst of a deep depression in which I was getting no relief from prayer/healing I began to wonder whether the whole thing was true or not. This launched me on a year of intensive study of the Bible, Christianity, apologetics, evolution, and the like. At the end of the year I had to admit that the evidence for the Bible/Christianity was way more sketchy than I had supposed. And, I came to believe in evolution, which, in my way of thinking, invalidates the major premise of the Bible (Creation, Fall, Redemption). I have been living as an agnostic for a couple of years now, because the type of problems I found with Christianity exist in most other religions, as well.

3) Within your religion are there degrees of observance (ie. Orthodox, conservative, moderate, liberal)? What are the defining differences between the degrees of observance?

Well, there's the agnostic/atheist dilemma. Some would say that an agnostic is actually an atheist who isn't being honest with himself. It's all in the definition, I suppose. When I think of an Atheist I think of someone who KNOWS there is no god or supernatural force. When I think of an Agnostic I think of someone who hasn't found enough evidence yet to justify a belief in a supernatural being/force, but is definitely still open to the possibility. Some would say that the former is a "hard atheist," and the latter is a "soft atheist." Like I said, it comes down to definitions.

I think there are differences in Agnostics/Atheists in terms of their stance toward religions and religious people. There is definitely a class that would be considered "militant," meaning they are hostile to religion and actively work towards discrediting it and bringing it down. I don't consider myself militant, although the teacher in me likes to share the things I've learned in my journey with others.

4) What is the Afterlife within your religion? For example: what happens when a person dies? Are there places for reward/punishment? (such as a Heaven/Hell concept)

As an agnostic I have not found enough solid evidence to prove the existence of an afterlife, although the "Near Death Experiences" are intriguing to study. Personally, I would be pleasantly surprised to find there is an afterlife. If there is one, I don't think it has anything to do with rewards and punishment. That's something man has made up, relatively recently in fact (300-100 BCE).

5) In your opinion, dopes everyone make it into heaven/paradise? If they do not ,why?

IF there is an afterlife, I imagine everyone will be there.

6) What makes your religion a good fit for you?

I've always had trouble with religious dogma. Much of my spiritual journey has been about trying to find a belief structure that is a good fit for me, and holds water intellectually. Eventually, they all fail. So, as an Agnostic I have become comfortable saying "I don't know." To me, this is preferable to any dogma that must be believed "by faith."

7) What are your holy days and what do you do to celebrate them?

I like Sundays because I am free of the compulsion to go to a house of worship!

8) Do you consider people of other faiths to be your friends?

Most of my friends and family are still Christians and we get along well.

9) Would you ever join people of another faith to celebrate one of their holy days? Please explain why?

Yes. In fact I went on a church-hopping journey last year and visited a dozen houses of worship including Buddhist and Jewish.

10) What are your thoughts on the burka, and Shariah Law?

I am hesitant about any religion that attempts to take over any government.

11) How much does your religion affect your daily life and how much thought do you give it when a making a decision? Does it affect in any way your decision on abortion, gay marriage, etc?

It has an effect in that I am not affected unreasonably by any dogmas in my decision-making process, influencing me to chose things that go against common sense, or my own desires. I am less apt to fear eternal consequences to my trivial decisions. On social issues I am much more open to gay marriage because there is no supernatural law against it. Interestingly, I still oppose abortion for the same reasons I did before.

12) How would you react/feel if your child wished to marry outside your religion?

I'm pretty open to my kids choosing whatever faith and mate they want.

13) In your opinion, if someone is not of your faith, will they go to hell?

Definitely not!

14) Who do you think is not a practicing---in your religion? ie who is the public domain claims to speak for your religion? Do you agree with them or not?

There's a long list of agnostics on wikipedia... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_agnostics

Contemporary public figures that are popular today tend to label themselves Atheist, such as Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens. Although not agnostics, per se, they do a good job dismantling the Bible, Christianity, and religious belief in general.

15) Have you ever been the target of a hate crime? Please explain.

No. Although I do have a couple of friends who still try to reconvert me.

16) Do you ever feel like your religion devalues you?

If anything, I feel more "important" now, knowing that my actions and decisions are up to me, not a higher power.

17) Does your religion give you peace of mind?

It gives me less mental confusion since I don't have to make pieces fit that don't fit anymore. However, the Christian myth can be very comforting having a God who is in control, who watches over us, and who is preparing a place for us in the afterlife. It was difficult to give that up.

18) Do you believe in reincarnation? Why or why not?

No. Not enough evidence. 

Mystery Church Hopper

I have started a new blog where I anonymously visit churches and other houses of worship, and write a review of my experience.

Please go and subscribe!  http://mysterychurchhopper.blogspot.com/

Thanks!

Doug

The Role of Doubt

I was taken by a quote from Rene Descartes recently...

   "The seeker after truth must, once in the course of his life, doubt everything, as far as is possible."

I consider myself a seeker after truth and can identify with a couple of periods in my life when I wiped away all that I thought I knew and questioned it all. It's a scarey thing to do, but I do believe is necessary if you are going to seriously go after the truth without presuppositions or bias.

What do you think? What role has doubt played in your quest for truth?

Wanted: Near Death Experience

Apparently, 8 million Americans have had some kind of Near Death Experience where they went through a tunnel, saw lights, etc.

I would like to interview someone who has had this experience, so if you know of anybody please have them write or call me to discuss.

Thanks!

douglasrdoan at gmail.com
904-735-3432

Billy Graham and the Bible

Last month I visited the Billy Graham Library in Charlotte, NC with my dad and my two daughters. We took the multi-media tour, which was an interesting overview of his life and career.

In one of the presentations Billy talked about a struggle he had early in his ministry about the truth and authority of the Bible. Was it really God's inspired Word?? Apparently he had a couple theologian buddies who were questioning the Bible's veracity and he needed to settle the issue for himself.

I was very interested to hear how Reverend Graham would solve this dilemma and come to some kind of resolution. There are lots of things about the Bible that I struggle with, and it would be nice to know how he came to believe in it and teach it with such conviction. What arguments persuaded him? How did he deal with the seeming contradictions and errors and atrocities and unscientific stuff? I was all ears.

To paraphrase what he said, it went something like this...

"God, I've got all kinds of questions about this Bible. There are a lot of things I don't understand. But I came to believe in you by faith, and I'm also going to decide by faith to accept this book as your inspired Word."

From then on he never looked back.

I was disappointed by this. The most significant evangelical of the 20th century solved his struggles over the Bible just by "deciding" to believe it? That left me so empty. I could not help but think of the millions of Mormons who have accepted the Book of Mormon by faith as the Word of God. And, fundamentally, every religion has holy books that at some level are accepted by faith. So what makes the Bible different? Any time you decide to accept teachings based on faith and not on reason or evidence, you lose the authority to pronounce those teachings as true, right? You can't say, "These writings and teachings are true because I decided to believe they're true. So you must believe them too!" But this, to my way of thinking, is what Billy Graham did. And he did it with a tremendous amount of conviction.

So, what about you? Do you believe the Bible is the inspired, infallible Word of God? If so, why? I'd like to hear your story. Leave a comment, and share this post with others please. Thanks!

The Latest from Harold Camping

This is from their web site.

The question constantly arises, where do we go from here? Many of us expected the Lord’s return a few months ago, and obviously we are still here. Family Radio is still operating. What should be our thinking now? What is God teaching us? In our Bible study over the past few years, we came to the conclusion that May 21 and October 21 were very important dates in the Biblical calendar. We now believe God led us to those dates, but did not give us complete understanding. In fact, we did not understand at all the correct significance of those two dates. We are waiting upon the Lord, and in His mercy He may give us understanding in the future regarding the significance of those two dates.

There were also a couple of audio messages from Mr. Camping. Here are the highlights: 1) Jonah preached the destruction of Nineveh and then God spared the Ninevites. 2) God told Abraham to sacrifice his son and then spared him at the last minute. 3) If Family Radio hadn't been "wrong," then the whole world would not have found out about the Bible and God's judgment, so God used the apparent mishap for his purposes.

My prediction is that this organization will evolve in ways similar to Jehovah's Witness history. The dates will stand, but the meaning behind the dates will be reinterpreted. I will be surprised if Harold comes up with a whole new date scheme; there were too many complicated mathematical interveavings leading to these two dates. It would be difficult to unravel them all. Although, to be fair, he did in once already! (1994)

I find it odd that Family Radio is no longer broadcasting any of Mr. Camping's in-depth Bible teaching series, or the notorious evening call-in show. In the past, even when he was sick for weeks at a time, they would play recordings of his teaching many hours a day.

I would love to find out what happened to some of his die-hard followers who sold all to spread the message. I am sure there is a remnant who is still hanging on, waiting for the next proclamation.

Christopher Hitchens dead at 62

Outspoken atheist Christiopher Hitchens, who gained public notoriety with his book, God is not Great, has died at the age of 62.

This is the Christianity Today article about him. 

Maybe there's a loving God

This song by Sara Groves always reminds me of ME!

MAYBE THERE'S A LOVING GOD

I'm trying to work things out
I'm trying to comprehend
Am I the chance result
Of some great accident
I hear a rhythm call me
The echo of a grand design
I spend each night in the backyard
Staring up at the stars in the sky

I have another meeting today
With my new counselor
My mom will cry and say
I don't know what to do with her
She's so unresponsive
I just cannot break through
She spends all night in the backyard
Staring up at the stars and the moon

They have a chart and a graph
Of my despondency
They want to chart a path
For self-recovery
And want to know what I'm thinking
What motivates my mood
To spend all night in the backyard
Staring up at the stars and the moon

Maybe this was made for me
For lying on my back in the middle of a field
Maybe that's a selfish thought
Or maybe there's a loving God

Maybe I was made this way
To think and to reason and to question and to pray
And I have never prayed a lot
But maybe there's a loving God

And that may be a foolish thought
Or maybe there is a God
And I have never prayed a lot
But maybe there's a loving God

Really Important but Unknown

80% of Americans think the 10 commandments should be displayed on public and government property.

Only 40% can name more than four.

How many can you think of without looking them up?

What happened on May 21?

Here is a page from Family Radio's greatly subdued web site.

What really happened this past May 21st ? What really happened is that God accomplished exactly what He wanted to happen. That was to warn the whole world that on May 21 God’s salvation program would be finished on that day. For the next five months, except for the elect (the true believers), the whole world is under God’s final judgment. To accomplish this goal God withheld from the true believers the way in which two phrases were to be understood. Had He not done so, the world would never have been shaken in fear as it was.     One phrase is “the completion of God’s salvation program.” The other is “God’s final judgment.” The completion of God’s salvation plan is concentrated in the word “rapture.” The phrase “God’s final judgment” is concentrated in the word “earthquake.”     These two words, “earthquake” and “rapture,” have been extremely important in our teaching of Judgment Day – May 21. A critical understanding of these two words is the only change required to know why the unsaved are now living in a world that has not been horribly destroyed, and the elect have not been caught up to be with God.     We always look at the word “earthquake” to mean the earth, or ground, is quaking or shaking violently. However, in the Bible the word “earth” can include people as well as ground. In Genesis 2:7 we read: “And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground…” Thus the word “earthquake” can also be understood to teach that mankind shakes.     Therefore we have learned from our experience of last May 21 what actually happened. All of mankind was shaken with fear. Indeed the earth (or mankind) did quake in a way it had never before been shaken. God had come spiritually to bring judgment upon the whole world.     The second word, “rapture,” identifies with the idea of the completion of God’s salvation program. The catching up of all the elect meant that there was to be no more salvation activity to be done anywhere in the world by God. Each and every true believer had become eternally safe with God in Heaven. No more was there any aspect of God’s salvation program that remained to be done.     But the same thing became true this past May 21, even though no one was raptured. No one who had not become saved by that date can ever become saved. God tells us in Revelation 22:10-12:     “And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: For the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he that is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still. And behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”     Thus we have learned that except for a somewhat different understanding of the words “earthquake” and “rapture” or “catching up” no other past teachings of Judgment Day or the end of the world have been changed. The time line, the certainty of it, the proofs, and the signs are all precisely the same. No other past teachings have been changed or modified. Indeed, on May 21 Christ did come spiritually to put all of the unsaved throughout the world into judgment. But that universal judgment will not be physically seen until the last day of the five month judgment period, on October 21, 2011.     We have also learned that God is still teaching that God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked and will not punish the wicked beyond what is called for in Deuteronomy 25. That is, there is a distinct limit to God’s wrath.     Thus we can be sure that the whole world, with the exception of those who are presently saved (the elect), are under the judgment of God, and will be annihilated together with the whole physical world on October 21, 2011, on the last day of the present five months period. On that day the true believers (the elect) will be raptured. We must remember that only God knows who His elect are that He saved prior to May 21.     You, too, without your knowledge may have become saved before that date. Anyone can continue to beseech God for mercy because salvation and the election program are entirely in God’s hands.

It's a good indication of the extremes groups will go to to re-interpret scriptures or past teachings to hang on to their core doctrines.

I like the last part, "You may have been saved prior to May 21, without your knowledge!"

I am thinking that October 21 will not garner anywhere near as much attention as May 21 did. Especially since Camping had a stroke on June 9th and has been moved to a nursing home. The "Open Forum" radio program is no longer aired each night. Ironic?

Can there be morality without God?

This is a 90 minute discussion/debate between prominent apologist Dr. William Lane Craig and Yale philosopher Dr. Shelly Kagan.

The topic is, "Is God necessary for morality?"

This interaction seems to be more civil and rational than most Christian/atheist debates tend to be.

Evolving in Monkey Town

This book is written by Rachel Held Evans, who some would consider a "darling" in the Emerging Church movement.

Evolving in Monkey Town tells her faith story. She grew up in a staunch evangelical home where her Father was a Bible Professor. In her Christian school she competed for and won the "Best Christian Attitude" award 4 years in a row. She was an outspoken evangelist as a child, and apologist as a young adult. She had all the answers and saw it as her solemn duty to give them to the rest of the world.

Then one day she saw a Muslim woman executed on TV and her house of faith started to crumble. This woman had lived a life of horrible abuse, and now that she was dead, would suffer unimaginable agony for eternity. Why? Because she had the misfortune to be born in a non-Christian nation. The notion of hell became horrifying to Rachel. It seemed like salvation was a "cosmic lottery" in which only a lucky few were winners. She could not reconcile her notion of what kind of God would devise this system.

So she went on a journey of questioning anything and everything about her faith, God, the Bible, and eventually made faltering steps back to Christianity by clinging to the depiction of Jesus as "the Great I AM with dirt between his toes," who taught and demonstrated that it was more important to love than to have all the right answers.

She isn't real in-your-face about it, but she strongly implies she's a universalist... no one will go to hell. Or at least people will be in heaven that had never heard of Jesus. The proof text wherewith she had her epiphany was the verse in Revelation where John said he saw people from "every tribe, nation, language" worshiping in heaven. She even imagined shouts of "Allah" ascending to the throne.

This book is an easy and enjoyable read. I identified much with the personal turmoil her doubt causer her, as I seem to have a faith crisis myself every decade. Her candor is refreshing.

One thing I don't understand, however. She talks a lot about the problems she has with lots of things in the Bible, such as the creation story, the role and treatment of women, the atrocities in the Old Testament, etc. She is very ambivalent about the Bible, loving and hating it at the same time. However, when it comes to the Bible's description of the person and work of Jesus, she seems to accept it at face value. She doesn't seem to question the story about him like she seems to question so much of the rest of the Bible. It's like, in spite of all the errors or "human fingerprints" throughout the Bible, somehow we have a reliable record of who Jesus was and what he did.

I suppose this book reflects much of what the Emerging Church movement is about. No doctrine. No creed. No absolutes. Nothing is very important except loving God and loving others (however that happens to be defined at the moment). The emerging church claims to not be simply a "Take II" of the liberal Christianity/social gospel of a century ago, but if it walks and quacks like a duck...

I'm going to finish by posting a bunch of quotes from the book. She's a good writer, and I trust this is not copyright infringement; but I'd like to give you a good enough taste that you will consider reading it. It will give you a  lot to think about. Definitely not for those who like their faith neatly tied up with a bow.

My friend Adele describes fundamentalism as holding so tightly to your beliefs that your fingernails leave imprints on the palm of your hand. p. 17


No longer satisfied with easy answers, I started asking harder questions. I questioned what I thought were fundamentals - the eternal damnation of all non-Christians, the scientific and historical accuracy of the Bible, the ability to know absolute truth, and the politicization of evangelicalism. I questioned God: his fairness, regarding salvation; his goodness, for allowing poverty and injustice in the world; and his intelligence, for entrusting Christians to fix things. I wrestled with passages of Scripture that seemed to condone genocide and the oppression of women and struggled to make sense of the pride and hypocrisy within the church. I wondered if the God of my childhood was really the kind of God I wanted to worship, and at times I wondered if he even exists at all. p. 22


There are a lot of things I don't know. I don't know where evil came from or why God allows so much suffering in the world. I don't know if there is such a thing as a "just war." I don't know how God will ultimately judge between good and evil. I don't know which church tradition best represents truth. I don't know the degree to which God is present in religious systems, or who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. I don't know if hell is an eternal state or a temporary one or what it will be like. I don't know why people are gay or if being gay is a sin. I don't know which Bible stories ought to be treated as historically accurate, scientifically provable accounts of facts and which stories are meant to be metaphorical. I don't know if it really matters so long as those stories transform my life. I don't know how to reconcile God's sovereignty with man's free will. I don't know what to do with those Bible verses that seem to condone genocide and the oppression of women. I don't know why I have so many questions, while other Christians don't seem to have any. I don't know which of these questions I will find answers to and which I will not. --- And yet slowly I'm learning to love the questions... pp. 224, 225


An evangelical in the truest sense of the word, I once wrote the plan of salvation on a piece of construction paper, folded it into an airplane, and sent it soaring over the fence into the back yard of our Mormon neighbors. p. 31


My strategy for winning the Best Christian Attitude award each year included keeping extra pens and pencils in my desk to loan to needy students, graciously allowing my classmates to cut in front of me in line at the water fountain, trying not to tattle in an effort to secure the troublemaker vote, and writing sweet notes of encouragement to Isabella and Juanita, to procure the minority vote. p. 36


I may have been the only teenager on the planet who enjoyed guilt-based purity lessons more than the adults giving them, and yet I managed to attract a few boys who thought that an excessively friendly, large-breasted girl with a purity ring and a savior complex sounded intriguing, especially the year Cruel Intentions was released. The smartest ones feigned interest in talking about spirituality so that they could get my phone number. Few made it past the first two-hour diatribe about being equally yoked. pp. 42, 43


You might say that the apologetics movement had created a monster. I'd gotten so good at critiquing all the fallacies of opposing worldviews, at searching for truth through objective analysis, that it was only a matter of time before I turned the same skeptical eye upon my own faith. p. 79


Suddenly abstract concepts about heaven and hell, election and free will, religious pluralism and exclusivism had a name: Zarmina. I felt like I could come to terms with Zarmina's suffering if it were restricted to this lifetime, if I knew that God would grant her some sort of justice after death. But the idea that this woman passed from agony to agony, from torture to torture, from a lifetime of pain and sadness to an eternity of pain and sadness, all because she had less information about the gospel than I did, seemed cruel, even sadistic. p. 91


After we finished the last pages of The Diary of Anne Frank in middle school, Mrs. Kelly informed the class that Anne and her sister died of typhus in a prison camp, thanks to Adolf Hitler. I was horrified, not just because of the prison camp but because everything I'd been taught as a girl told me that because Anne was Jewish, because she had not accepted Jesus Christ as her Savior, she and the rest of her family were burning in hell. I remember staring at the black-and-white picture of Anne on the cover of my paperback, privately begging God to let her out of the lake of fire. p. 92


The space between doubting God's goodness and doubting his existence is not as wide as you might think. I found myself crossing it often, as it didn't require much of a leap. p. 96


When I was a little girl, if someone asked me why I was a Christian, I said it was because Jesus lived in my heart. In high school, I said it was because I accepted the atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross for my sins. My sophomore year of college, during a short-lived Reformed phase, I said it was because of the irresistible grace of God. But after watching Zarmina's execution on television, I decided that the most truthful answer to that question was this: I was a Christian because I was born in the United States of America in the year 1981 to Peter and Robin Held. Arminians call it free will; Calvinists call it predestination. I call it "the cosmic lottery." pp. 97-98


Some Christians are more offended by the idea of everyone going to heaven than by the idea of everyone going to hell. I learned the hard way, as reports about my faith crisis spread around town and rumors that I'd become a universalist found their way back to me in a wave of concerned emails and phone calls. Once news of your backsliding makes it to the prayer chain, it's best just to resign yourself to your fate. p. 113


...Sammy was one of those kids who lived in constant terror of getting unsaved, so every year, he marched his way to the front of the rustic little chapel at Bible camp and rededicated himself to Jesus, while the rest of us pretended to keep our eyes closed. p. 170


I'd always wanted a gay friend. But, as embarrassing as this is to admit, I wanted the sort of gay friend who would give me fashion advice and add some diversity to my clique, the kind of gay friend who would make me look edgy and open-minded, not the knid who would actually challenge my thinking or stereotypes. p. 177


When I was a little girl, I knew I could be anything I wanted to be when I grew up, except a pastor. p. 181


Doubt is a difficult animal to master because it requires that we learn the difference between doubting God and doubting what we believe about God. The former has the potential to destroy faith; the latter has the power to enrich and refine it. The former is a vice; the latter a virtue. p. 219


 The Bible is by far the most fascinating, beautiful, challenging, and frustrating work of literature I've ever encountered. Whenever I struggle with questions about my faith, it serves as both a comfort and an agitator, both the anchor and the storm. One day it inspires confidence, the next day doubt. For every question it answers, a new one surfaces. For every solution I think I've found, a new problem will emerge. The Bible has been, and probably always will be, a relentless, magnetic force that both drives me away from my faith and continuously calls me home. Nothing makes me crazier or gives me more hope than the eclectic collection of sixty-six books that begins with Genesis and finishes with Revelation. It's difficult to read a word of it without being changed. pp. 188, 189

Well, there are many more nuggets. But I will leave it to you to get the book and discover them for yourself.

Please share this post on Facebook and twitter by clicking on the buttons below. I'd also like to hear your comments by clicking on the word "comment" below. Thanks for stopping by!

I was wondering about the Tower of Babel

The Tower of Babel is an intriguing and fascinating story. The purported aim is to explain why we have a lot of different languages in the world. If we all came from Adam and Eve, shouldn't we all speak the same language, "Garden-of-Eden-ese?"

In any case, I can't help but wonder the following things about the story, as told in Genesis 11...

1. Did they really think they were going to get to heaven? How high were they going to have to go? 50 stories? 500 stories? 5,000?
2. Did they have elevators and escalators? If not, that would be a LOT of climbing. 
3. What did they do with all their pee and poop when they were on, like, floor 732? Throw it out the window? yuck
4. How high did they get before God thwarted their plans? Did they get to 30 stories? That would have been really high in those days.
5. Did God really think they were going to reach him? Isn't he like waaaaaay up there? Was he really nervous about it all?
6. What if they were building on the wrong side of the earth, thereby building further and further away from heaven? I would have been pissed to find that out!
7. Is this when God invented the 5 "love languages?"
8. Our skyscrapers today have probably gone a lot higher than the tower of Babel. And our spaceships have gone waaaaay past that. Is God really realllllly worried now?
9. Is having the same language really the thing that makes a people invincible?
10. Is this when men and women stopped understanding each other?
11. In God's omniscience and foreknowledge, did he know that someday far in the future someone would have the bright idea to invent babel fish?

OK. you're turn. Comment and tell me what your thoughts are about the Tower of Babel!

And, by all means, share this on Facebook! If you don't I will confuse your language. Asdfojl ewruionsd sdko!!

Video intro to Christianity Today's "The Search for the Historical Adam"

Were Adam and Eve literal?

The Bible/evolution debate has raged for over a century.

One way to rectify the conflict has been to say that humans did descend from more primitive forms, but it was at one particular point in the process when two specific individuals (Adam and Eve) made the important leap to the homo sapien species, from whom we all descended.

Recent genetic evidence, however, seems to point to a pool of several thousand primates who made this evolutionary progress together. This makes it difficult to see Adam and Eve as two literal human beings as described in Genesis.

Understandably, this has caused a stir in evangelicalism. If Adam and Eve were not literal, is it possible to salvage basic Biblical theology, especially Pauline, which posits that because of the one man's sin (Adam) all died, and because of one man's obedience (Jesus) all can live? Can you have a redemption if there wasn't a Fall?

Christianity Today did an article on this dilemma which you can read here: The Search for the Historical Adam.

So, what do you think? Were Adam and Eve two literal beings from whom all homo sapiens descended? Does it matter?

Please share and comment as you are led.

Woody Allen and Billy Graham

If you had too much sausage pizza and dreamed that Woody Allen interviewed Billy Graham, it might have gone something like this...

I wish I had gotten this pre-rapture advice

Harold Camping comes out of hiding

Harold was back on his live call-in talk show Monday night, with news reporters in the room with him.

So how did he handle the failure?

• He was bewildered and perplexed at first.
• He says that his dates are still right.
• What happened on May 21? Judgment of the world did begin. It just began "spiritually," not physically.
• October 21 is still slated as the date of the end of the world, but it will come quickly, not gradually.
• He expresses no regret or sorrow about the folks who have sold all they owned and emptied bank accounts and retirement funds to help spread the word. "We have never told people what to do with their money."

I think my predictions were pretty accurate. He has always been very convinced of his dates, in spite of no tangible evidence for the things that have already supposedly happened (like the Holy Spirit leaving the churches in 1994, which are now ruled by Satan). 

Therefor, I had predicted that he would not back down on the dates, and would claim that something did happen, just in some intangible way that can not be verified. 

There are several things I would say about Mr. Camping's character that would be good to keep in mind going forward.

1. His biblical understanding trumps all other claims to truth. If external reality doesn't corroborate with what he thinks the Bible says, it just doesn't seem to matter to him.
2. When he's convinced of something he gets quite dogmatic. No evidence or argument can dissuade him. His mind is made up.
3. He has very little sensitivity to how his teachings affect people. He takes no responsibility for it. "I just teach what the Bible says." 
4. He is married to the myriad of dates he has calculated. They are just to elegantly interconnected for him to give them up. It's the culmination of decades of tedious study.

Therefor, I predict that he will continue to teach full steam ahead on his radio program that October 21st is the end of the world, and will be just as emphatic and dogmatic as ever.

I also predict that after October 21 he will claim that it was a "spiritual" end of the world. He will not recant on his dates. A church movement of some kind will develop in the aftermath, similar to how the Jehovah's Witnesses emerged from the ashes of the "Great Disappointment."

To read more go here.

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Musical history of the King James Version of the Bible

In honor of the 400th anniversary of this Bible translation, enjoy this video!

Download new Bible version for Free

In 1976 a bunch of Greek papyri and inscriptions were found revealing the common, everyday meaning of many Biblical words. Prior to that Bible translators had to guess at lots of meanings.

A classical Greek scholar has translated the entire New Testament based on these more accurate understandings of Greek words. This is a little bit unusual because translations are often done by theologians rather than language scholars, and they are often financed by some type of religious organization - which usually has some kind of bias.

One small example of a difference you'll find is that when the New Testament says to "believe in" someone, the author says it is more accurate to say "believe" someone. So "believing Jesus" would be more accurate than "believing in Jesus."

If you'd like to see how a language scholar attempts to faithfully render the Greek New Testament into modern day English, why not check out this translation. It's called, "The Source," and the author is Dr. A. Nyland.

To download a copy, right click on this link. (If you just want to view it without downloading it, left-click, and then wait a bit.)

To purchase this translation from Amazon, click the link at the top of this post.

If you do take a look at it, let me know what you think by clicking on the word "comment" below.

If you haven't done so already, I invite you to follow this blog by email, facebook, google connect, or a blog reader. All these options are in the left column. By the way, following this blog has led to 39% fewer cavities!

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Dr. D

What is your God like?

Is God nice or stern? Involved or distant?

In a book published last September, Paul Froese and Christopher Bader posit that Americans worship four distinct types of God: "The Authoritative God--who is both engaged in the world and judgmental; The Benevolent God--who loves and helps us in spite of our failings; The Critical God--who catalogs our sins but does not punish them (at least not in this life); and The Distant God--who stands apart from the world He created."

 I'm wondering what you think God is like. The authors state that although Americans have these four distinct views of God, most of them are pretty adamant that their view is the right one!

In my life, I started out with a "Critical God." He was always looking over my shoulder to catch me doing something wrong, and there would surely be "hell" to pay (in the next life). As an adult I came to believe in a "Benevloent God." This God was full of mercy and grace, always wanting to help us with our sins, troubles, and failings. He was a best-friend, good-buddy. He was caring, loving, and in control of the big picture. Lately, I have come to experience more of a "Distant God." When I look around at the world and my life I wonder where God is. There are a lot of good things that happen. There are a lot of tragic things that happen. Things I used to attribute to God may be better explained as natural processes, or coincidence. Sometimes the universe seems like a dark, cold place. It's like God created everything and set it in motion, and then stepped away.

So what about you? Which personality do you think God has? Click on the word "comment" below to add your voice to this dialog.


To check out the book on Amazon, click the link to the left.

To hear the authors interviewed go here.

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Jesus is coming back on May 21st!

So says Harold Camping. Why should you care?

Harold Camping is the president of Family Radio, which has over 100 radio stations across the United States and some other countries. He is not some “flash in the pan” kook. He has been hosting the “Open Forum” call-in show for 3 hours a night for decades where people call in with their Bible questions. He obviously has a large following because these hundred plus radio stations need lots of money to stay in existence.

For some time now he has been teaching that the “rapture” will occur on May 21, 2011, when “true believers” will be caught up to heaven, followed by a time of intense tribulation. Six months later the “end of the world” will come.

He has come to these dates through complex understandings of the exact calendar dates of everything from Adam and Eve, the flood, and the birth and death of Jesus. For example, he says that the creation of the world was 11,013 BC. The date of the flood was exactly 7,000 years before May 21st, 2011. To see some of the mind-numbing complexity, go here. Coincidentally, Camping is not a trained theologian. He is a civil engineer. My observation is that when engineers get a hold of end times prophecy, complicated mathematical interpretations are sure to follow! (Some of you may remember Edgar Whisenant who wrote a booklet called, “88 Reasons Why The Rapture Will Be In 1988.” He was an engineer!)

Camping says that certain numbers in the Bible have meanings. For example:

• 2  Those bringing the gospel
• 3  God’s purpose
• 5  The atonement (judgment and salvation)
• 7  Perfect fulfillment of God’s purpose
• 10  The completeness of whatever is in view
• 12  The fullness of whatever is in view
• 13  The end of the world
• 17  Heaven
• 23 Judgment or God’s wrath
• 37  Judgment or God’s wrath
• 40  Testing
• 43  Judgment or God’s wrath

So, if something was 46 years, for example, that is 2 x 23, so it has something to do with “those bringing the gospel” and “Judgment or God’s wrath.”

Most people write him off immediately because the Bible says that “No man knows the day or the hour” of the coming of Jesus. However, he has biblical explanations for all of the common objections to date-setting. For example, the book of Daniel says that one of the “seals” will be opened in the end times, allowing us to understand things that were hidden before. Many of the controversial doctrines he teaches are because “God is opening our spiritual eyes” to see things the we were not allowed to understand before. He quotes a verse in Ecclesiastes that says “a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment.” Moreover, he says that all of those restrictions regarding knowing the exact time of the end were in effect during the “church age,” which he claims ended several years ago. Lastly, he draws analogies to Noah and Jonah, both of whom warned people of God’s impending judgment, and when it would be (Niniveh-40 days, Noah-7 days). Jesus will come as a thief in the night, but the person that is watching (studying the Bible intently) will not be surprised or caught unaware.

Camping is a “true believer,” in that, he totally and absolutely believes this will happen because God has given “many infallible proofs.” These proofs generally come in the form of complicated mathematical coincidences, not by any observable events in the world. However, he sometimes uses external evidence to support his claims. For example, the evidence that they Holy Spirit departed the churches at the end of the church age can be seen by the church’s acceptance of divorce, the gay agenda, the rise of the charismatic emphasis on signs and wonders versus the Bible, and the persecution he and his followers experienced when they began believing and teaching some of his new doctrines.

Having come to his conclusion on the dates he has now gone through the entire Bible in excruciating detail showing how just about every verse supports his conclusion. One of his biblical interpretation principles is based on the verse that said that Jesus spoke in parables and “without a parable he spoke not unto them.” (Matthew 13:34) He claims that Jesus and the Bible are the same (both the Word of God). Therefore, since everything that Jesus said is a parable, everything in the Bible must be a parable. Now it is possible to take every saying, event, and teaching in the Bible and come up with an allegorical or parabolic “hidden” meaning. Unfortunately, once you go that route everything is up for grabs; it’s possible to show or prove anything! I have observed the irony that this results in taking the concrete, historical events in the Bible and finding hidden, spiritual meaning, while taking the parts of the Bible that are obviously parabolic or allegorical and assigning them literal, historical meaning! It’s a maze, to be sure.

Every extreme group develops it’s own nomenclature, or catch-phrases, and Family Radio is no exception. Here are some of them that you will hear Camping and his devotees utter regularly.

• “Super important” - What you say when you’re trying to make a point emphatically.
• “Holy” - Whenever you say God or Bible, make sure you put “Holy” in front of it.
• “True believer” - This is to differentiate between people who think they’re believers but are only deluded, and those that are really saved.
• “Do-it-yourself gospel” - This is what they call any church’s teaching about how to be saved.
• “Cry out to God for mercy” - This is the only thing you can do in hopes of salvation.
• “Listen to the whole Bible” - Anyone who doesn’t believe the doctrines Family Radio teaches are said to not be “listening to the whole Bible.” They are just picking and choosing verses here and there.
• “Compare Scripture with Scripture” - This is usually used to justify an interpretation of Scripture that is different than the norm, by showing how another verse defines a particular word in the first verse.
• “Local congregations” - Churches
• “Opening our spiritual eyes” - What God has been doing over the last few decades, helping Camping understand new doctrines that were previously hidden, unknown, or not understood.
• “Intense desire to obey the whole Bible” - the mark of a “true believer.”
• “Thank you for calling and sharing. And shall we take our next call please. Welcome to Open Forum.” (Sorry, I just had to include this! Those of you who have heard the program will get it.)

Here is an overview of the doctrines currently being taught. For details go here.

• End Times
• May 21, 1988 - The end of the Church Age, where the Holy Spirit departed from the churches, and Satan became their ruler. Start of the Great Tribulation. Virtually no one gets saved from now until the next event in the timeline, which is...
• September 7, 1994 - The end of “Silence in Heaven.” Now it’s time for a great multitude of people to become believers, a great harvest.
• May 21, 2011 - A great worldwide earthquake, and all true believers raptured away to heaven. The beginning of 5 months of severe judgment on the unbelieving. No possibility of being saved anymore.
• October 21, 2011 - The universe as we know it will be destroyed, and a new heaven and new earth will be created.
• Annihilationism: This is the doctrine that in the final judgment unbelievers will be destroyed in hell, not left alive to suffer torment eternally.
• Extreme Calvinism: This is the doctrine that there is nothing we can do in and of ourselves to be saved, including having faith. Faith is seen as a “work.” The only thing we can do is “cry out ot God for mercy” and maybe he will save us. In fact, one of his booklets is called, “I hope God will save me.” (To me, this strains the definition of “good news!”)
• End of the church age: This is the doctrine that in 1988 the Holy Spirit left the churches. Many of the verses in the Bible no longer apply, as they were only meant for the “church age.”
• Leaving the local congregations: This is the doctrine that states that since the Holy Spirit has left the churches and Satan is now in charge of them, all true believers will leave their congregations. God deals with people directly now, not through the church.
• Jesus’ crucifixion was only a demonstration: This is the doctrine that states that since the Bible teaches that Christ was slain “before the foundation of the world,” his crucifixion and death in 33 AD was only a “demonstration” of what he had already previously done.
• Assurance of salvation: How do you know you are one of the saved, elect, a true believer? Because you have “an intense desire to be obedient to the whole Bible.”

I have been listening to Family Radio off and on for the last few years, mainly because of my curiosity about what he and others will do on May 22nd, 2011, the day after the rapture will have supposed to taken place.

Other groups with large followings have set dates for the end of the world, for example, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, and the Worldwide Church of God. When the predictions fail sometimes the organization survives and sometimes it doesn’t. Those that do survive typically handle the failure in one of two ways: 1) They claim their math was wrong, or the calendar they used was faulty, so they reset the date. 2) They reinterpret what was supposed to have happened on that day in spritual/invisible terms, such that it could not be verified objectively. For example, “Christ did return on that day. He returned as the true leader of our church.” You get the point.

I have speculated what Camping will do on May 22nd. My guess is he will do #2. He is so convinced of this date through so many complicated proofs that it “can’t be wrong.” So, when the rapture doesn’t happen on May 21, I am sure he will say that the date was right, but our understanding of what would happen on that date was wrong, and he will go back to the Bible to find more “truth.” For example, he might say something like, “Christ did return for his true believers, but he did not take us up into a literal heaven like we were expecting - he took us ‘spiritually’ to heaven. We need to continue to live on this earth in order to continue to teach and preach the Word of God.” One of the reasons that leads me to believe he could take this kind of approach is that he claims that the “church age” ended several years ago, and that we have been in the great tribulation for many years now, neither of which have very good tangible evidence. External reality seems to matter little. Whatever is his current interpretation of the Bible is all that matters. Reality needs to conform to that.

However, there is a slim possibility that he could reset the date. The reason for this is that he formerly predicted 1994 as the end. People met in an ampitheater in California to await the end. When it didn’t happen, he went back to the Bible and refigured. I’m not sure it will happen again though, since he is so utterly convinced that he is right this time. The first time he published a book called “1994?” He thought it might be the end, but he didn’t teach it as undeniable truth.

The third possibility is that he will claim that God changed his mind because of people’s repentance. I base this on the fact that Camping refers often to the story of Jonah who preached judgment day to the city of Nineveh, and because of their repentance God changed his mind and spared the city. It’s tougher for me to believe he will take this stance because there is not wholesale repentance going on in the world now like there was in the story of Nineveh. But who knows. Anything’s possible.

The other thing to consider, of course, is what his followers will do on May 22nd. I am sure that many of them will be bitterly disillusioned. I’m not sure how one’s faith recovers after something like that. I am sure there will be some who will cling to Mr. Camping regardless, because they are so totally enamored with his Bible knowledge and sincerity that they regard him as a prophet, even though he is careful to claim that he is not one. He is just someone who has “carefully studied the whole Bible for many years and come to conclusions that anyone would come to who did the same.” He bills himself as a teacher, not a prophet. He claims no special revelation from God, and is suspicious of anyone who does.

What is my personal take on all this?

First, I respect and admire anyone who takes the Bible and his faith as seriously as Camping does.

Second, it seems odd to me that the way God would choose to reveal the exact date of the rapture and end of the world would be through an extremely intricate and complicated system of the timeline of history that only an engineer could possibly understand. Is this how he revealed the future to anyone else ever? No. He did it through prophets, not teachers.

Third, the whole date-setting phenomenon has been going on since the first century. This is not new. For an exhaustive list of these predictions go here. This is another in a very long list.

I think this failure will be life-altering for many of Camping’s followers, especially for those who have changed their whole lives (and bank accounts) based on this belief. In my opinion, the type of person that typically calls in to his talk show is generally uneducated, simple, suggestible, and fear-prone. They are “sheep,” if you will. It is sad, and in my heart I have wished to be available to help them in the aftermath, but have not known how to communicate that to them.

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